Wednesday, December 26, 2007

Ponte Vista: New Year, New Ads

I think we all may want to start watching for new advertisements coming from the Outreach Team and Ponte Vista at San Pedro.

I have been told that there may be advertisements featuring local individuals and local businesses which support Bob's plans for building 1,950 condominiums on 61.53 acres of land in northwest San Pedro.

There is also a one-page sheet of information that is floating around from Ponte Vista which claims to show what will be gained from having 1,950 condominiums built, against leaving the site with "Development Under Existing Zoning".

The one-page flyer also states that: "63% of Harbor Area residents favor Ponte Vista over the multimillion dollar mansion development alternative*".

* "Based on telephone polling after describing the real facts about the options for Ponte Vista."

I believe this is the very same telephone polling that also stated: "Ponte Vista would be a mix of single-family houses, town houses, and condominiums...". I am still waiting for anyone at Ponte Vista to show me any plan for "single-family houses".

Actually, 63% of persons surveyed stated that they favored housing at greater density than single-family, but did not state that it was for any specific number of units.

Also in fact: When the telephone polling was taken, the number of units applied for at Ponte Vista was 2,300-condominium units and NOT 1,950-condominium units which is what Bob Bisno has currently applied for.

Another point that should be noted, if you read the one-page propaganda sheet is that "Western Avenue Connection to Mary Star High School" had a check by it, under Bob's proposal, but had an "X" by it if the zoning remains as it currently is.

I have been writing that if the site remains R1, Bob is not necessarily obliged to provide access between Western Avenue and the new high school. On the sheet, it states basically, just that.

If we find, in the new year, folks in businesses and/or businesses themselves in advertisements supporting Bob's plans to build 1,950-units, it will be up to each and every one of us whether we wish to continue to patronize those businesses.

It is going to be very interesting to see how many folks actually are willing to put their own faces and/or businesses forward as supporting Bob's plans for his weapon of mass development.

Happy New Year!


Anonymous said...

What are you going to do? Post a "Do not do business with the following" list, just because someone doesn't agree with you? Your problem is that you seek to root out and punish/chastise anyone who's opinion differs from yours. As someone who served this country (as I believe you mentioned that you did) we all have the right to express our own opinions without fear of retaliation. That's what freedom is! Should we cancel our AT&T service because you work for them and we don't agree with you? Please don't try to suggest boycotts, etc. The only followers you will have are those who have no mind of their own. Present your case with dignity and the rest will take care of itself. Although I may agree with many of your points, I think your "lambasts" reduce your credibility considerably. Remember, you can catch more flies with honey, honey!

M Richards said...

Thanks anonymous 5:44 PM for your opinion.

Boycotts have been used in the past and are still in use by some people throughout the world.

Nobody needs to participate in a boycott if they don't feel they need to, or should.

I also do not feel members of OUR community should be forced to the "back of the bus" by developers who come into OUR community and change it to what WE believe is would be worse.

Living in this country gives citizens the right to gather, speak, and join together to fight wrongs they feel are being forced on them.

Now, IF Bob were to come up with a truly reasonable, respectful, realistic, and responsible number of units for Ponte Vista, there would be no need to challenge him or his supporters on anything.

Something is going to be built at Ponte Vista. It will probably have a density of greater than R1 and both you and I know that.

If Bob seeks to continue to demand 1,950 units, there is absolutely no reason anyone should call for any density greater than R1, at THIS time.

I am sure that most intelligent folks know that if the total unit count for Ponte Vista is in the 1,200-1,300 unit range, most of the individuals who are considering R1 now would probably not be that opposed to that range of units.

But Bob hasn't moved from outrageous numbers, so there is no reason to demand anything other than R1. It is up to Bob to settle the arguments. He is the applicant and he is the intruder into OUR community who wishes to permanently change it.

As with grapes and busing, sometimes boycotts work. There have been many boycotts that have not worked, and I realize that.

I am just suggesting that IF there are individuals who oppose Bob's plans to build 1,950 units at Ponte Vista AND these individuals have a choice of doing business with businesses which support Bob's plans, they MIGHT consider doing business with businesses that are not advertised as supporting Bob's plans for his weapon of mass development.

You are most correct that I swore oaths several times to protect and defend the Constitution of my country. It is that Constitution that allows me to even consider a boycott as a way to suggest to Bob and others that he has too many units planned for Ponte Vista.

It is also that Consitiution that I have sworn to protect that allows us to exchange thoughts, comments, and arguments.

The Constitution I was using when I served in the United States Air Force allows me to post lists of businesses found in advertisements as supporting Bob's current plans.

Yes, I do have the right to post the list as long as it is factual.

Yes, I also have a great responsibility to myself, my family, my neighbors, and my community to fight against Bob's plans to bring far too many condominiums into OUR community, which I am but one member of.

I must suggest to you, anonymous 5:44 PM, that it is not the opponents of Ponte Vista who may not have minds of their own, but it has been shown by the lack of information garnered from supporters of Bob's plans for Ponte Vista, that many of them do not know the real facts of the proposed development.

There are also many supporters who have stated, both publicily and privately, that Bob's 1,950-unit project is too large for their own personal feelings.

I appreciate your defense of Bob and his plans, but I simply feel that 1,950-units are just too many units to place on the 61.53 acre site.

Do you anonymous 5:44 PM actually support Bob's total plan, or do you feel as other supporters' do that some number count, lower than 1,950 would be more appropriate?

What about 1,750, 1,500, 1,300?

Actually, my dream is for 1,080 units:
550 Senior Housing Units
130 Upscale Town Houses
400 condominiums of varying pricing.
With my dream, which can be achieved, it is larger than Bob's 724 R1 count that INCLUDES below market housing for lower income individuals, and would be able to have some rentals.

My dream allows for first-time home buyers, upscale ownership and more senior housing than Bob's original plan.

Please tell me anonymous 5:44 PM, what is so wrong with my dream?

Jim said...

Mark, you are dreaming. 1080 units is still way too many. Been to Torrance lately?

As far as a road to Mary Star from Western goes, Bob may not have a choice in the matter. He can be required to build that road if he exects to get any permits to build anything, reguardless of the zoning or density. Bob stll appears be under some kind of spell where he thinks he is the one caling the shots.

What is wrong wth a boycott Anonymous 5:44? It's not because they have a different opinon, it's because they are in favor of a project that will ruin the community. The streets and parking lots are already jammed beyond capacity. We're full, there's no more room. They favor it for financial gain at the expence of the community. To come out so strongly against someone who barely mentioned a boycott sounds like you must have some financial gain from it as well.

Anonymous said...

dear anonymous:

mr. bisno should be severly criticized for even considering an idea to put 2,300, 1,950, or anything even close to that number.

the author's boycott is well within his rights, and is perhaps not even enough of a tactic against the westside developer.

get real! the developers are winning the battle of los angeles! downtown los angeles alone has 150 projects in the pipeline. long beach? does that place need more condos?!

when is enough enough!?

you ma'am, or sir, are living in denial. Southern California traffic is not going to get any better if we keep building and building and building.

M Richards said...

Thanks Jim, and yes, it is only my dream.

Torrance was able to find space for senior housing by creating much of it on already depressed land and usually in more commercial areas.

Your are correct in your thoughts about Torrance. Even the mayor of the City now laments the over development of that City, but there is nothing he can do about it, now.

Torrance and your observations have provided all of us with an example of what would most probably happen in OUR, more local, community if Bob gets anywhere close to the numbers he wants.

Unfortunately the ghost of Mr. Marley didn't visit the members of the Torrance City Council before it allowed too many projects in that City.

I do feel that the harbor area could stand for some senior housing and if it can't be in the form of a high-rise building in downtown San Pedro, I don't know where it can be put.

I know that there is really no study, fact-finding, or true studies to indicate that seniors in OUR community really want senior housing in this area, but perhaps there are enough baby boomers who would like to get out of their homes with yards and into a easier type of housing.

I could certainly also wish for a community garden at Ponte Vista so folks who like gardening can still do that in a condo-community. Bob hasn't suggested something like that and that would really be a "community benefit", I feel.

Yes, I may be the most gullible person around and too much of a dreamer, to boot.

Happy New Year!

Anonymous said...

Mark, I hope someone will eventually post the names of those businesses who support Ponte Vista. A boycott will just be another way to show the strength this community has when we band together. I wonder what the legalities are regarding the exposure of these businesses?

P.S. - Mark, thanks for not resting on this problem we still face. It seems Bisno is fine with waiting us out. It took a long time to gather enough steam through RNR1 to make an impact. Now the question is how quickly we can organize again when the call comes.

Ann C. said...

I feel I must comment on Anonymous 10:41. You are anxious to expose the names of businesses in support of Ponte Vista yet you choose not to expose yourself! What's the difference in being a supporter or detractor if you are "Anonymous". Grow some you-know-whats and expose yourself as you choose to expose others. After all, Mark has no problem putting his name out there, and if you are really a supporter of RNR1 then let the world (or whoever reads this blog) know who you are. No offense Mark, but I don't think the whole world is reading your blog just yet!

M Richards said...

Thanks Ann C, for your brilliance!

During this time when the Department of Planning for the City of L.A. has the EIR in their hot little hands, the readership of this blog naturally should go down.

I hope, plead, and beg that not too many folks actually read this blog, because it is concerning a certain subject.

The blog I have that folks everywhere may find a bit humorous is my Caveman Dairy at:
It is the only blog that doesn't deal with subjects like my neighborhood, R.P.V., my high school graduating class, or the uncensored blog I have for Ponte Vista topics, which is a blog I wish nobody had to, or wished to read.

I don't pretend to be any kind of an educated writer, but I feel I know OUR community and can join many others in commenting on what goes on around the place so many of us call home.

Happy New Year!

Anonymous said...

anne c. - My name is Anthony Katnic. I have been born and raised in San Pedro. Grandparents (on both sides) came here about 90 years ago. We have seen what over-development has done here in San Pedro. It's not good. If it were up to me, I'd turn the Ponte Vista property into a park. The next best thing is single family homes....the lowest impact to population growth. To me, I can care less about the rhetoric regarding affordable housing and senior housing. This is simply about controlling the population that this towns infrastructure can handle. Ponte Vista will be a killer. So I support RNR1. They are the only organized group that has made a difference in fighting Bisno and getting through to Janice Hahn. And if I see a listing of businesses that publicly support Bob Bisno and Ponte Vista, you bet I will not support them! I empasize businesses that "publicly" support Ponte Vista. If they have already exposed themselves to Bisno as a supporter, all I'm saying is gather all those business names on one list and show them on places like this blog.
So there you go anne c, I'm "exposed" (big deal). How about exposing yourself as a Ponte Vista supporter? What does the "c" stand for anne? I'll bet your real name is George or something.

M Richards said...

Thank you, Mr. Anthony Katnic, for revealing your identity.

Mr. Katnic has commented on this blog many times and has provided many thoughtful comments.

As this blog should be a forum for comments from everyone, as long as they are clean and non-attacking, Mr. Katnic and I disagree on some of the issues and still I appreciate his comments.

I happen to believe "Anne C." may actually be "Anne C." and not one of the many individuals who claimed their true identity was something other than it truly is.

Most of those folks are gone or I have moved their comments to my uncensored blog.

As 2008 becomes the current year, we are most probably going to see what the L.A. City Planning Department considers as a viable project for Ponte Vista.

The Planning Department will not allow 1,950 units to be built, but to expect them to allow for only 429 single-family residential units, may be quite a stretch.

Bob Bisno would have you know that his idea of R1 is 724-735 single-family units. Those numbers come from bonus densities he would be allowed IF he actually provided for "low income" housing, for real first-time buyers and families that would otherwise not qualify ofr market rate housing.

If anyone out there really feels that Bob Bisno would provide "low income" housing in a project that included 1.1 Million Dollar Homes, I would gladly donate the acre of the Moon I have owned since college.

We all should wait patiently to see what comes out of the Planning Department and be ready to react or act on the outcome.

In truth and in fact, I strongly feel that if the Planning Department comes up with a total unit count of 1,200-1,300, we may not have enough fight to keep that number out of consideration.

However, there are many individuals who strongly feel that R1-1XL and O1-1XL, the current zoning of the property, is what should always be on the site.

It will be up to each and every one of us to decide if that is a fight that can be won.

If the zoning is to remain for Ponte Vista, we all need to understand the pros and cons of that and be able to deal with those issues.

Please remember, almost every single condominium development in the greater L.A. area has renters in those units. Higher numbers of units mean more renters and much worse conditions.

When I bring up the Scottsdale condominium project, in Carson, I bring it us as a condominium complex that has so many renters in the units, the entire character of the complex has changed, and not for the better.

How do I know this? We have a good friend that owns a unit inside Scottsdale, but since she has such a limited income, she lives in the garage portion of her unit and rents out the rest of her place. This is not that uncommon at Scottsdale.

I will always strongly contend that as long as Bob continues to push for his weapon of mass development with 1,950-units, there is absolutely no reason that opponents can't demand R1, NO COMPROMISE!.

Happy New Year

Anonymous said...

I agree with Anthony completely. I wish it were going to be a park too. And I will boycott all business that supports this nightmare called Ponte Vista.. The businesses are only thinking of $$, so there is only one way to react - BOYCOTT!

Anonymous said...

Well I guess anne c. is okay with calling people out to reveal themselves, but she/he doesn't have the "you-know-whats" to do the same. Typical...
Anon 8:30, thanks for putting in your 2 cents. We need to keep each other fired up on this subject, as well as pull in others who feel the same way. That's why this blog is great...the more people who express their willingness to support the cause, the better.

Happy New Year!


Ann C. said...

Sretan Nova Godina, Mr. Katnic.

Ann Cvijanic

M Richards said...

Thank you so much, Ann Cvijanic!

I knew Sretan Bosic, but I have always wanted the correct spelling for Sretan Nova Godia!

I have to admit that I grew up a real San Pedran, but alas, there is no Croatian blood running through my veins.

And another alas, I also have no Italian blood in me, either.

I do however, bleed a bit of Norwegian blood when I am cut.

I hope that no matter if you are a Ponte Vista supporter, or an opponent to Bob's current plans, you will find yourself more welcome by me in the new year.

I try to avoid name calling like "ranting elitist" or "thug" as can be found on other blogs that support Bob's plans or plans that include too many units, in my opinion.

Be well and Happy New Year!

Anonymous said...

Hvala Ms. Cvijanic! Same to you!

Now we just need to get you on the right side of the issues! Just kidding...

I understand where you are coming from on the boycott issue, but it's just like anything else when groups boycott businesses for various reasons, such as when a business does not support union labor or when they outsource to foreign countries. It's all about $$ when it comes to business... They think Bisno is going to help their pocket, but the community can counter that.


M Richards said...

Thanks again, Mr K.

Whatever is built at Ponte Vista will generate spending within a 5-mile radius of the Ponte Vista site.

The new Target and some of the businesses in downtown San Pedro will get some of that spending.

Unfortunately, most of the sales tax revenues coming from spending within the 5-mile radius will be given to cities other than Los Angeles.

Since there are no new car dealerships and too few appliance and furniture stores in the 5-miles radius and still in Los Angeles, most of the durable good spending will be spent in places like Torrance, Carson, and Long Beach, and the sales tax revenues will go to those cities, too.

We all believe that "something" will be built at Ponte Vista. Janice Hahn made that perfectly clear in August 2006, at the first meeting of the CAC.

Whatever the "something" is must not decrease the quality of life for everyone, including the neighbors of Ponte Vista, I feel.