Saturday, May 12, 2007

May 12, More San Pedro

I hope you all have a chance to read the May 12 edition of More San Pedro. If it doesn't come to your home, you can read it on the Internet by going to and scrolling down on the left side of the page to find the menu item for the pages of More.
I doubt that readers using the Internet will get a chance to see the picture of Neal Kleiner on page three. But folks who can view his smiling face have the opportunity to look at the fact that Mr. Kleiner is wearing three buttons on his shirt.
The light blue button that he appears to be wearing over his left shirt pocket is unidentifiable to me, and many other folks. The darker blue button more towards the center of his shirt is his campaign button. I know this because I proudly wear one that looks exactly like the one he is shown wearing.
And then there is the wonderful button he is viewed wearing on the right side of his shirt. How proud and happy I feel seeing a button I made being worn by a candidate who is not afraid or unwilling to show his support to all the folks working to keep Ponte Vista R1.
I think, if you notice the photo of Dr. Richard Vladovich, you can see that he doesn't appear to be wearing any button at all. Since Dr. Vladovich announced his run for the seat finally being vacated by Mike Lansing, he has had every opportunity to make his opinion known, via this blog, letters to editors, paid advertisement, attendance and speaking to the CAC, and many other venues to tell all of us his thoughts on what should happen on the Ponte Vista site. It seems by Dr. Vladovich's meeting with Bob Bisno that I know about, I feel it is fair to say that he either favors Bob's current plans, or won't come forward with his opinion on a project that could have a devastating impact on schools within the area he is looking to represent.
Shouldn't Dr. Vladovich tell us what he feels about adding a potentially large number of students to our local schools?
Well, it looks like Bisno supporters, followers if you will, are continuing to dredge the bottom of barrels of smut, smudge, goo, and other disgusting stuff in their failing attempt to help Bob with his current plans to build a development that is simply too large.
In the one letter published concerning Ponte Vista, "Ted Carlson" stoops to sarcasm by "appearing to be an R1 proponent" when he probably is another supporter of Bob's current plans who has to lower himself to levels good folks in OUR community shouldn't have to lower themselves to.
It is not enough that supporters of keeping R1 at Ponte Vista have to continue to have derogatory names hurled at them by some supporters, they now have to put up with someone masquerading as an R1 supporter, who is actually is a Bisno supporter.
What happened to honesty on the part of many of Bob's supporters. I know that a vast majority of them are honest and "Ted's" letter does none of them any good in dealing with their credibility.
After seeing so many folks walk up to tables and signing the R1 petitions over the last four weeks, I think members of OUR community are smarter than "Ted" believes they are. These thoughtful folks can read right through "Ted's" letter and view it for what it really is. come on "Ted", give supporters of R1 more credit than you seem to do for Bisno supporters.
Just think if supporters of Bob's current plans actually believe the letter was actually coming from a supporter of R1; it looks like "Ted" is writing to the uninformed, and too many of those folks support Bob's current plans.
All the uproar continues concerning Eastview Little League when there is a perfectly wonderful plot of land currently owned by a developer who can simply unlock one gate and donate part of his land as a "community benefit" for everyone interested in Eastview Little League. I am quite sure that an insurance policy can be written and paid for by the League to guarantee that Bob is not held liable for anything that might happen on that piece of land if the League had the one key it needs.
Think of the philanthropic claim Bob could make throughout OUR community, by simply unlocking the gate, with no strings attached, right now. It looks like the folks at Target have made a donation to the League that will help them pay to upgrade all that flat land and even the existing backstop at Ponte Vista. Supporters of Bob's current plans could stop their name calling and their sarcasm, and their derogatory statements and sit back and enjoy their "Hero's" contribution to the League. A feather in a cap is much better than muck on a shoe.
If Eastview Little League was to begin it's 2008 season on beautiful diamonds on the south side of the Ponte Vista property, there would still be enough time for them to find a real permanent home before the bulldozers hit the site to begin building 429 wonderful houses.
I can't see how this idea is not a win-almost win for all sides. Bob gets to look like a hero, the League gets a temporary field with plenty of parking near the fields available, and not up a steep and narrow drive, Knoll Hill dog park won't have to be altered in any way, and other real "community benefits" that I haven't mentioned.
But Bob is still stuck being Bob. His supporters appear to be growing more desperate and evil. Even though Ms. Hahn has spoken at this time, the folks at Bisno Development and their seemingly slimming number of supporters still aren't willing to listen to her and a vast number of members of OUR community. I don't know what more it is going to take, but it looks like R1 supporters will probably prevail in their quest to keep the current zoning at the site of Ponte Vista at San Pedro.
Let's see what happens on May 15, with a vote that puts Neal Kleiner into a seat at the Board of Education, May 16, when R1 supporters gather for their first official meeting, and on Tuesday May 22, when the next meeting of the CAC is scheduled for.
As the ancient Chinese curse is proving to be; "May you live in interesting times."


Anonymous said...

at one point this blog was somewhat a place to exchange ideas. now, it has become a sea of verbal diahhrea led by Mark Wells, who believes there is no reason to say in a couple words what could be said in 50. I"ve never seen such a blowhard so impressed with himself. oh well, his "15 minutes". before the CAC no one even knew, or cared, who he was.

mellonhead said...

Hey Mark, You really got these "PV HEROS" in a tither. Anon 1037 is a prime example of someone who has nothing to say about Ponte Vista but sticks his head out from under his rock to take potshots. Anon 1037, identify yourself and say it to Mark's face or be silent.

Anonymous said...

That letter from Ted today is amazing. If Bisno supporters are like him, we have nothing to worry about. That was one of the most ignorant letters I have ever read.

Richard Wagoner

M Richards said...

Thanks mellonhead, It now seems to becoming more apparent that the straws Bob's supporters continue to grasp at are becoming too brittle to hold on to without using the glue of name calling, personal attacks, misrepresentation, anonymousness, sarcasm, and some real ignorance of the facts as presented by Bob, himself.

My wish for a Senior Housing section is failing, just like it seems, supporters of Bob's current plans are having to realize, that the R Neighborhoods Are 1 group is strong, growing stronger, and will take the steps necessary to keep Ponte Vista with its current zoning, no matter what my wishes are, or any of Bob's supporters.

The only difference it seems to be with me is that if my dream for a Senior Housing section doesn't come through, I will realize that it is because of the will of the majority of the members of OUR community and I will have no reason to doubt or be mad at their resolve.

Even if I loose, it looks like everyone else wins, and I can certainly live long and happily with that.

M Richards said...

Thanks Mr. Wagoner,

Since I first became involved with the issues surrounding the Ponte Vista project, I have been wondering why so few of Bob's supporters either know or care to know the real facts about the proposed project.

Jim Jones had his Kool-Aid drinkers and Bob Bisno appears to be someone who believes he is a pretty good salesman.

I am extremely sure that if more of Bob's supporters actually read the DEIR like I, and many other opponents to his current plans have, they too would probably become opponents to a project that is simply too big.

M Richards said...

Anonymous 10:37,

If you really feel that my "15 minutes" are up, why are you and so many other supporters of Bob's current plans, still reading this blog?

Don't you know how to start a free blog of your own?

If you don't like what I write, you have every chance in the world, galaxy, and universe, to not read anything on this blog.

Unfortunately Anonymous 10:37 AM you deprive yourself of even one of the "15 minutes" because you continue to hide behind your "Anonymous" name and won't come out of the shadows.

Too bad for you, whatever credibility you feel you have is shattered because you won't reveal yourself.

Anonymous, 10:37 AM, your "1 second" is up!

Anonymous said...

R1 supporter "anonymous" here.
The Ted Carlson writing was pretty entertaining. It does expose the irrational thinking of the Bisno supporters. They keep hanging on to several themes that do not make much sense.
1) Senior housing/care.
We are not talking about convalescence here. Bisno means houses for people over 55!!! Quite honestly, most Pedro seniors I know want to stay in their "home" till they die if they could. They typically don't look to downsize, and if they did, there are plenty of townhomes and condos in San Pedro to accomodate. So what's the problem?
2) Working Families.
Gee two of the "working" professions 'ol Ted mentioned, Longies and Fire are the ones who have more buying power than most people. More than me, that's for sure! Also, what is "affordable"? Bob is not going to give HIS money away. He will get MARKET value for this "affordable" housing. If "affordable" housing is another word for small/dinky/inadequate housing...then okay...Bisno will provide affordable housing.
3) Economy.
I don't know where Ted lived before he moved to San Pedro, but he needs to take his Torrance/Long Beach/Huntington Beach/Orange County visions of "community" and leave them where they belong...not in San Pedro. The local small businesses here are doing just fine. The premise Bisno makes is based on business generated by population growth. The problem is that we don't want nor do we need more population growth. We have enough population to support all the small businesses in San Pedro along with a few big ones too!! This arguement of economic growth focuses too much on MONEY and not enough on QUALITY OF LIFE in San Pedro.

I ask this question of the Bisno Supporters: Why are you trying to "fix" what's not broken in San Pedro?

Anonymous said...

Good points 10:48.

The bottom line is that Bisno has no real good reason to change the R-1 zoning other than to increase his profit margin -- at the expense of our quality of life. That's why the former Navy housing site must remain R-1, the zoning that he knowingly purchased this property at.

Anonymous said...

(Ted Carlson)- the ranting elitist letter writer. Hmmm....nice work Bisno.

Tom said...

The Letter to The Editor of More San Pedro by Ted Carlson has been severely criticized.

Given it is no secret I am not favorable to the R-1 gang, I wanted to give my opinion of his letter and the resulting criticism. I promise to not be verbose.

By the time I finished reading the letter, I was laughing so hard I was almost crying. It is one of the most hilarious parodies I have read in a long time. I don't believe anyone with half a brain could have read the letter and thought Mr. Carlson was in earnest. Anyone who did, takes themselves way too seriously. The letter does a great job of underlining the ridiculousness of the claims of the R-1 gang.

for an un-biased forum.

Tom Field

M Richards said...

Howdy "Tom",

You have done what I have encouraged many folks to think about doing by starting your own blog.

I wish you good luck, but I wish you would let me know who you really are so I can provide more credibility to your blog.

You want your blog to be "unbiased" yet you will moderate all comments which means you will use a type of censurship. You will have the ablility to post comments at your will or keep them off of your blog, because they might not be what you would like them to be.

I have written a post about your blog and made comments on your first three posts.

I do believe that I asked you who you were on Thursday evening and you did not give me a straight answer. That makes me question your blog's credibility from the get-go and that is not good.

I would truly like to be involved in discussions of the type you wish to have on your blog, but with your moderation and the fact that I can't say you are not a Bisno employee, makes it tough for me.

M Richards said...

Actually I disagree with "Tom Field's" interpretation of Ted Carlson's letter.

Of course nobody in their correct mind could possible Ted was nothing more than a disgruntled Bisno supporter, but it was just another example of the tactics SOME of those supporters are having to stoop to, to defend Bob's current plans.

Yes, I too laughed when I read Ted's letter, but after I stopped laughing I was wondering where Ted had ever seen comments like the ones he was parodying. I don't think he would have read them on this blog in any manner similar to how he constructed his letter.

If he was doing a parody of others who write letters to the editor, then perhaps he was doing it to folks who don't know as much about the project as "Tom" and I do.

If he is repeating verbage used by the ill informed, then he is making the same mistakes they unfortunately make, too.

I didn't like the comment that Anonymous made about Ted's letter. I think he didn't see it the way I saw it.

I do believe that there are some real supporters of Bob's current plans who might actually believe that Ted is acutally an R1 proponent. I have been to all the CAC meetings and heard all the comments from the many, many supporters who have spoken, and many of them still seem to not know as much about what they are supporting than I think they probably should.

Tom said...


Perhaps you are correct and I am wrong. Everyone has their own way of reading things. I chose to read it as a parody.

However, given your reminders, I have heard many statements at CAC meetings made by R-1 supporters which were similar to that made in Mr. Carlson's letter.

Who knows? It is just another indication of how far off the scale this debate has gone.

Tom Field

M Richards said...

You are correct that we have all heard that kind of stuff done in that similar manner at CAC meetings and not necessarily on the blogs.

I guess the R1 demanders have similar types of sayings that Bob's supporters continue to repeat. And that still leaves lots of us in the middle.

I wish more folks who wore the yellow Ponte Vista supporter tags would get up and address the CAC about compromise.

Ever since Carol Rugnetta wrote her letter in the Breeze about compromise, she hasn't been to another meeting. The other woman who made the verbal comment about compromise still comes and I wish she would repeat her words again to give others the guts to tell Bob to compromise or negotiate.

But after what I have been writing about Bob probably waiting too long and "Banditos Yanquis" newest post on Life on the edge,, it may be too late for both of us.

Anonymous said...

Hold on just a minute. Mark, I don't get this comment from you: "I didn't like the comment that Anonymous made about Ted's letter. I think he didn't see it the way I saw it." I understood the parody. It was obvious. What about my comments do you not like or disagree with?

M Richards said...

Mea culpa, mea culpa anonymous,

After re-reading all of the 15 comments, and especially the long one from Anonymous, I could not find anything to disagree with in that long comment. Usually I write the time after I write "Anonymous" but in this instance, I did not and therefore, It is my fault if any ill feelings were felt.

The Anonymous I was annoyed at was much earlier in the comment stream. He was "dissin" me pretty badly and I did not like that. Perhaps I was referring to that anonymous. The long comment by Anonymous 10:48 AM was a wonderful comment and it would be great if that person created their own post for this blog. That anonymous was reasoned and made great points.

Again if I offended anyone other than the guy at the top of the comment stream, then I am sorry. to the Anonymous at the top of the stream, get a blog yourself and see if anyone visits.

Anonymous said...

No problem Mark. I wasn't quite sure which anon you were refering to. Just checking....
I find it hard for anyone to dispute the truth, as I see it, regarding those 3 hot button topic areas.